How To Fight Back Against Collection Agencies
Feb 15th, 2007 by Jennifer Lynn
Preserve your rights against debt collectors to make sure you’re being treated fairly
If you’ve been contacted by a collection agency, don’t be afraid, feel ashamed, or become nervous. Remain firm and stand your ground. Never allow yourself to feel manipulated or bullied. You will never, ever go to jail for not paying a debt. Take a deep breath, learn your rights, arm yourself with knowledge and prepare to fight back. You have more power than you probably realize.
The lies, manipulation and deceit of some collection agencies
A collection agency may contain hundreds of employees who are armed with thousands of people’s personal information stored in a computer database. Usually they are paid off a commission and every penny extracted from you benefits their pocket. If collectors reach certain quotas, they might receive fat bonuses as incentives to aggressively collect.
Some agencies are renowned for unethical techniques used to terrorize innocent victims into paying debts. Intimidation, deception and any feasible manipulative means are implemented to ensure quick and efficient payments.
I once knew a debt collector who lied and said he was from Dominos pizza. He was desperate to track down a certain individual in order to collect on the debt and receive his pay day bonus! This may seem harmless in itself, but it is also extremely unethical and *illegal*
What else is illegal?
- A debt collector may not harass you or use intimidating language against you or attack your personal character in any way
- May not call you before 8 a.m. or after 9 p.m. without your specific consent
- May not continue calling numerous times per day, with the sole intent to harass
- May not call your workplace without your employer’s consent
- Can not use false or deceptive statements, such as misrepresenting themselves as attorneys or government officials (or Dominos pizza men;)
- Can not threaten to send you to jail or insinuate you are a criminal
- Can not send you misleading documents that can be construed as legitimate legal papers, such as issuing a false summons
- Can not threaten to garnish your wages or file a lawsuit unless they intend to
- May never threaten you with violence
- Can not be deceptive in misrepresenting the amount of debt they claim you owe
NEVER give a debt collector your bank account information or pay by check with a traceable routing number. Many folks in this industry have no qualms on cleaning out your account and helping themselves to much more than you initially agreed upon.
There’s another pertinent reason not to immediately fork money over until a debt has been properly validated – the debt may, in fact, legally be expired.
Debt Statute of Limitations
Did you know that debts expire after a certain amount of time passes? This is why paying any amount towards an old debt might be one of the stupidest things you could possibly do in some cases.
If you haven’t paid toward a debt in a long time, after a set number of years after the account has gone delinquent (usually four to six years – depending on state), you’re no longer under legal obligation to pay the debt. This is called a debt’s Statute of Limitations (or SoL).
Here’s a complete list of each state’s Statute of Limitations.
However, every time you pay towards a debt before it’s Statute of Limitations has arrived, you’re resetting the clock on the debt. If you’re a few months away from your SoL and pay any portion thereof, the legal timer starts all over again. You’ve just unwillingly renewed your debt, and an agency is legally able to continue pursuing collection from you for another four to six years (depending on your specific state’s SoL).
How ironic is that? In a sense you’re being punished for trying to partially pay what you can on a debt you necessarily can’t afford to pay off.
Be warned also; in some states just admitting guilt on the phone by agreeing to payment is enough to reset the SoL timer - so tread carefully and use common sense. Make sure the agency first coughs up all appropriate legal documents to prove the validity of the debt.
If you don’t know what the debt is or if you suspect the debt may be approaching or past its legal SoL, demand a validation process immediately.
It’s imperative to never admit fault to a debt or agree to pay any amount toward a debt until the debt has been properly validated in writing by the collection agency.
Use Debt Validation To Protect Yourself
Why is this imperative? Because ironically, the majority of the time the collection agency *can’t* properly validate the debt, especially if it’s old. They have a hard time producing the proper legal documents to legitimize that you actually owe a debt.
Many times these scumbag ‘bottom feeders’ bought the debt from the original creditor for pennies on the dollar. Now they’re in diligent pursuit to make your life miserable, and will attempt to strangle as much money out of you as they possibly can. This isn’t even mentioning -on top of- charging exorbitant fees.
For example, a collection agency may pay $20 for an old, SoL $1,000 + debt, and will do anything they can to intimidate the victim into paying. Anything they receive past their initial investment of $20 is lining their pockets and making them extremely wealthy.
And don’t be surprised if the debt has magically morphed into an outrageous sum.
The good news is once you actually challenge these collection agencies, many times they’ll suddenly (and very conveniently) disappear. They’ll sell your debt for a reduced cost of $10 to another collection agency, and then someone new will start to call and harass you.
According to The Credit Info Center, collection agencies may pay for portfolios of debt at the following rates:
- Recently been charged off: 6 to 7 cents on the dollar
- Accounts that are slightly older and on which a collection agency or two has already taken a whack: 1.5 cents to 2 cents on the dollar.
- Years-old, out-of-statute debts: A penny or less.
These types of sleazy debt collectors are famously known as bottom feeders, zombie debt collectors or junk debt buyers.
(Some good sources to check out: Zombie Debt is Hard to Kill, Return of the Living Debt)
What to do if you’re contacted by a collection agency
If a collection agency contacts you over the telephone, politely ask for their name and contact information. Then firmly state you’d like further information about this alleged debt and will be in touch shortly for validation purposes. Immediately hang up the phone.
At the very least, figure out what debt collection agency is contacting you, and then immediately HANG UP. Just knowing their relevant contact and mailing information is all you’ll need to take the next crucial step in fighting back.
Before validation never, ever admit guilt of a debt.
Your conversation will be recorded and any slipup or naive language on your part can be used against you later if it should go to court, especially if you unknowingly use language that admits fault to an alleged debt. So stay off the phone to protect yourself. Keep all further correspondence strictly to writing.
I strongly recommend not speaking with a debt collector over the telephone under any circumstances. You are under no legal obligation to speak with a debt collector over the phone and, in fact, it’s one of the most foolish things you can do.
The debt collector is banking on the fact they can use intimidation scare tactics to shaken the situation and cause you to slip up. They hope you’re uncertain and, unfortunately, like the majority of their victims, aren’t properly aware of your legal rights.
Collection agencies will use any tactics necessary, even extremely unethical ones, to get you to admit fault or force any type of payment.
This is especially true if the debt is an old zombie debt. The collector is desperately trying to force you into unknowingly resetting your Statute of Limitations, especially if the debt is drawing closer to expiration. They know once SoL hits, they’re powerless to legally collect from you.
Remember, paying any portion of a SoL debt is admittance of guilt and will renew the debt and start the ticker again - even if the debt is all ready expired.
Deception is rampant in this industry. Protect yourself as thoroughly as you can with knowledge. Bare in mind that collection agencies have no power and should not be trusted.
Put the Collection Agency on the Defensive With Validation
Once a collection agency has contacted you, now it’s time to immediately take control of the situation and put the collection agency on the defensive. Force the collection agency to first legally validate the debt by proving you actually owe it.
NEVER agree to make any type of payment towards an alleged debt unless you receive proper written validation and must settle as your only option. I can’t stress this enough. Any payment agreement between you and the debt collector is your immediate admittance of fault. In some states it’s also enough to reset your Statute of Limitations.
First make the collection agency responsible for proving you owe an alleged debt still within the Statute of Limitations.
And then make them prove they are legally entitled to collect from you.
You will not receive this type of courtesy unless you demand it.
Restrict all correspondence to writing and keep a record of every type of documentation you receive from the collection agency. Send *everything* certified mail with return receipt requested to keep for your own records. This is crucial in providing accurate proof and documentation that you are trying to resolve the matter but the agency has thus far failed to prove you legitimately owe them anything.
All right, so you have the collection agency’s address. You’re pissed because these scavengers are making billions every year off the misery of others with their sleazy tactics. You’re ready to challenge them and stand up for your rights.
So now what?
- Validation letter. This is the ultimate weapon in your arsenal to get rid of many unscrupulous debt collectors. After you’ve been contacted by a collection agency, you’ll want to force them to validate the debt to prove you actually owe them something, and that the debt hasn’t expired past the SoL.
- Limited cease and desist. If these buggers will not stop calling, you can legally force them to by issuing a limited cease and desist request in writing (illustrated below)
Send a validation letter immediately by certified mail with return receipt requested. Here’s an example of a validation letter
Your Name
123 Your Street Address
Your City, ST 01234ABC Collections
123 NotOnYourLife Ave
Chicago, ILDate:
Re: Acct # XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX
Dear Scumbag Collector:
This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice sent to me on February 15, 2007. Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (b) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.
This is NOT a request for “verification” or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.
Please provide me with the following:
* What the money you say I owe is for;
* Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;
* Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;
* Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;
* Identify the original creditor;
* Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account
* Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state
* Provide me with your license numbers and Registered AgentAt this time I will also inform you that if your offices have reported invalidated information to any of the 3 major Credit Bureau’s (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion) this action might constitute fraud under both Federal and State Laws. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against you for the following:
* Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act
* Violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act
* Defamation of Character
If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.Also during this validation period, if any action is taken which could be considered detrimental to any of my credit reports, I will consult with my legal counsel for suit. This includes any listing any information to a credit reporting repository that could be inaccurate or invalidated or verifying an account as accurate when in fact there is no provided proof that it is.
If your offices fail to respond to this validation request within 30 days from the date of your receipt, all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit file and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me immediately.
Also include a limited cease and desist clause.
I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by USPS.
It would be advisable that you assure that your records are in order before I am forced to take legal action. This is an attempt to correct your records, any information obtained shall be used for that purpose.
Best Regards,
Your Name
Remember That You’re Not Alone
There is a plethora of information available on properly handling debt collectors and junk debt buyers. I am by no means a professional or a lawyer and I strongly urge everyone to take the time to properly do their research.
These techniques are powerful in fighting against unethical and illegal collection tactics. But they only work if you know how to use them properly.
You can also follow my personal journey on the nightmare of being sued and fighting an invalidated debt. As an update, I filed my answer with the court last month and, ironically, have yet to hear from the ‘law firm’ again.
~†~ Baby Steps are Key ~†~
Arm yourself with as much knowledge as possible and protect yourself from victimization and abusive practices. Even if you legitimately owe a debt, you still have the right to be treated fairly and have your privacy respected.
=^..^=
Strongly Recommended Reading: Privacy Rights Debt Collection Practices, Federal Trade Commission Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, CreditBoards.com forums
***
Addendum 12/23/07 - The above article pertains to collection agencies only and not the original creditor(s). Collection agencies are covered under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and must validate if a debt is disputed, even if working on behalf of the original creditor. If the original creditor is contacting you directly, however, they are not regulated by the FDCPA and have no legal obligation to validate a debt to the consumer.
=^..^=
† †
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Thanks for the post - it’s extremely timely for me. My mom just got a letter from a collection agency, and we have no idea what debt it is they’re referring to. I don’t think she’s called them yet, so it’s still possible for us to do everything by mail.
Nicely written. I didn’t know that you can force the debt agency to prove that you owe money. Very informative, thanks. Your site looks awesome.
[...] How To Fight Back Against Collection Agencies - Broke-Ass Student [...]
There is a lot of great info in there. You did a great job on this article. I’m not sure how the Canadian laws differ, but there is a lot of things in here I didn’t know. I had no idea that there was was statue of limitations for debt collections. 4-6 year isn’t that long of a time. I’m sure if you were so inclined you could go to an out of state college, move and then spend the next 4-6 year dodging the debt. It would be cheaper moving and hiding then paying! Of course that would be unethical and I’m sure illegal…but you sure would save a lot of money!
Hi Eclipse. Your Statute of Limitations pauses when you leave the state the debt was acquired in and resumes when you return. If it can legally be proven you were attending university out-of-state and the debt was acquired at home, for example, the time frame you’re not present won’t count toward debt expiration. Once you’ve arrived back in the proper state of debt acquisition, the Statute of Limitations ticker continues for the remainder of the years you were absent
Very informative post and very well written! One of my clients was describing his dealings with a debt collector and he has NO IDEA what debt they are referring to and just keeps asking for proof. I think he said it’s been about 10 years now - the ~2K “debt” has grown to 10K due to interest. He won’t hear from them for a year or so and then he gets a call all over again.
Lets just make it easier for people to steal others money or scam others. Yeah great post asshat…..
Asshat? Haha, thanks. ;p
Kyle, if someone willfully dodges legitimate and validated debts by disappearing, it will eventually catch up with them. The original creditor or collection agency always reserves the right to issue a summons and sue the debtor. If they can’t find the person, they will merely send the summons to the last known address and the debtor will lose the case by default because they did not properly file an answer to the summons with the courts. Then the creditor can get a default judgement to legally garnish the debtor’s wages, place liens on their assets or freeze their bank accounts. The only way the debtor can try to avoid wage garnishment is if they consistently switch jobs every few weeks. That doesn’t seem like a very attractive lifestyle to me. If someone chooses to live their life on the run, they will also deal accordingly with the consequences.
However, when a collection agency comes after you out of nowhere, the consumer always has the legal right to dispute by demanding to know exactly what the alleged debt is for and proof it isn’t time-barred (past SoL). Even when being sued, the defendant reserves the right to demand a discovery process for validation of the debt and if the collection agency can’t produce these legal documents, the case is dismissed due to lack of evidence.
Collection agencies hang themselves due to their own unethical practices and greed. You can’t just suddenly claim someone owes you money without proper evidence to back up your claims. So where exactly is the scam?
Jennifer,
I found your site from johnchow.com…what a great concept. I can empathize with your situation as a “brokeass student.” I went off the deep end and decided to pack up my comfy life in St. Louis to go to grad school in Ireland for 2 years. I got here this past August and it has been a wild ride. I just closed on the sale of my condo yesterday, all the while robbing Peter to pay Paul (using student loan funds to cover my mortgage until it sold) as well us keeping up with credit card payments. Thanks to joys of online banking, I used the proceeds of my condo sale to pay off ALL of my credit cards this morning, woo hoo! I’ve had a few scrapes with collection agencies and I know how threatening they can appear to be.
I’ve added you to Google Reader and I look forward to more great posts. Best of luck to you and I hope you stop by my blog sometime.
-James
[...] Broke-Ass Student » Blog Archive » How To Fight Back Against Collection Agencies If you’ve been contacted by a collection agency, don’t be afraid, feel ashamed, or become nervous. Remain firm and stand your ground. Never allow yourself to feel manipulated or bullied. You will never, ever go to jail for not paying a debt. Take a de (tags: debt howto anarchy) [...]
I found your site from JohnChow.com as well and this was a great article. Our sites have some similar content so I will be sure to come back often to see what’s new on your site.
Good post. The missus and I were victims of identity theft and consequently recipients of countless calls and letters from debt collection agencies. I can vouch that while time-consuming and frustrating, using debt validation techniques really help — although I might suggest that one refrain from using the salutation “Dear scumbag collector”….
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I found your site on JohnChow.com and am so glad that somebody is spreading the love regarding protecting yourself from collection agencies since so many people are being squeezed by these shylocks.
Great post! Thanks for the info. I just wonder what would be my next move if the collector still doesn’t leave me alone?
I’ve paid off most of my debt, but still have a few that linger (working on it) and this jerk collector just came out of nowhere resurrecting debt that I’ve managed pay off. I made the mistake of continuing a conversation with a collector on the phone - he originally told me that he was trying to reach an emergency contact and wouldn’t tell me of who. I should have known..
At some point I stated that I’ve paid the debt in full to the original creditor. Now he still calls and he told me the only way he’ll leave me alone is if I send him “proof”. Whatever. I’m good with the original company, I don’t have to provide this (to borrow from an earlier commenter) asshat with anything, right?
But anyway, great advice you have here! I look forward to catching up with all your posts that I’ve missed since before I found you. Thanks!
This is my first time on your site and in navigating through it, I find a lot of the material very interesting. Keep up the good work!
Great post on basic rules for dealing with debt collectors. I’m a legal aid attorney (and a rather recent convert from being a “broke-ass student”) and I deal with debt collectors all the time, albeit, mostly their attorneys.
One thing I think you cannot emphasize enough is that you cannot go to jail for having debt. Time and time again I deal with clients who absolutely convinced that they will have to go to jail if they cannot settle their debts with collection agencies.
Also, for nan, it seems like this debt collector is violating the FDCPA. You might want to contact your local bar association and see if they have any consumer law attorneys they can put you in contact with who might be interested in filing a FDCPA violation claim for you. If successful, the debt collector will owe attorneys fees and a financial award to you.
Ok…i got a question. I have a debt from a school that was sent to collections 4 years after I stopped going to school there. They never once contacted me prior to it being sent to collections. I live in PA, what is the statute of limitations concerning this? I know its hurting my credit, but what would be my best interest to do on the account?
Jennifer, great info! Got a question for you.
Once an account reaches it’s SOL and you didn’t pay, can that agency then sell that account to another CA, setting up a new set of SOL’s?
Anyways, here’s my situation:
Made a settlement offer w/CA, agreeing to pay 25% on a debt. CA agreed to this, but refuses to delete the acount (which doesn’t suprise me, but was worth a shot) and says it will be reported as “Disputed/Settled” on the credit bureaus. My SOL ends according to my credit bureaus on 2/2008(I no longer live in the state that this originated). The original creditor reports the last payment received was 3/2001. Have all terms of settlement in writing (states original creditor & account, settlement offer, and agreement to notify credit bureaus) and taped conversations.
Question 1: I’m scared to death about paying because I’ve been told the same thing about resetting the SOL. Been told that they could take the payment and then sell the remainder to another CA. But others have told me the written agreement that I have will protect me from all that. What’s your view?
Question 2: Should I wait out the term of the SOL and just not pay? Again, I do not live in the state where this orginated anymore, but it does state on the credit bureaus when this account shall be closed.
I am much more concerned about the credit bureau side than the money side. I want to make sure if I pay the settlement, that this thing is over, DONE. How can I assure myself of this? Can I assure myself this?
Hello,
I have a question: I feel sick to my stomach now that I’ve learned of the statute of limitations in Ca. I took out a mastercard in 1999, went through a financial hardship and consolidated my debt through a company called Debt-Free ( I believe they are now out of business). They did not disburse my $200 payments correctly (even though they seemed to have no problem deductng them from my checking account each month), and this mastercard was forgotten. Years went by and a 3rd party collection agency is now after me for more money than the original credit balance, but they will settle on $4000, if i make payments of $250 every month starting next month.
I feel like i’ve been taken, and i cannot afford these payments. Do i have any rights?
Kelly
[...] How To Fight Back Against Collection Agencies came at the perfect time for me - my mom just got a letter from a collection agency, and she has no idea what the debt is that they’re referring to. [...]
Why is it still legal to sell and re-sell expired debt? I made a mistake many years ago with debt, and it keeps coming back like a bad burrito. The debt dates to 1992, so the SoL would have expired in 1996 or so. I “paid it off”, or so I thought, when contacted by a collection agency in 2000. Another one contacted me in 2002, but I couldn’t find any proof of having paid the previous company and *thought* I was legally required to pay it again. I got a letter from the second company stating the debt was paid in full, and used it the next two times zombie collectors came calling.
Recently I discovered the reality behind this dubious business and decided to send a cease & desist letter if it happened again. And it has… THREE different companies have contacted me in the last three months trying to “settle” this long-expired debt! Sheesh. Warning: one very cleverly disguised it as a credit card offer (”you owe a big debt, but if you just accept this offer we can convert the debt into a high-interest credit card, aren’t we nice?”), and I never would have realized it if I hadn’t idly opened the apparent junk mail.
Kelly, if you have not made a payment on your mastercard account since 1999, you are home free. It is now 2007 - more than 8 yrs later - the statute of limitations has expired. So you don’t need to and shouldn’t pay the collectors even a single penny.
Okay, here is my question. If you have a debt that is beyond the SOL but is still on your credit report what steps do you have to take to remove that item.
Thank you for the blog post. It was helpful with me fighting a junk debt collector. Merchants’ Credit Guide was the bully against me. No way I owed over $5000 dollars. Credit is perfect. I followed your steps but the thing the put it over the top was contacting my states attorney general’s office. They have a consumer advocates group that made contact with the company on my behalf. Their calls stopped the debt collector from unfairly pursueing debt that was not mine. SUGGESTION to those that are in the same spot; make sure you at least use the resources that your taxes pay for, it can be very helpful.
Liked your posting. Especially your sample letter for these old debt collectors that one has no idea who the original debtor was or if they are owed anything or not or just trying to get you money so your kitty can’t have fancy feast as often. I am confused on the re setting of the clock for I have read that a collection agency cannot reset even if you have paid on the account within the seven years. I just had an account go off the report after seven years and don’t know now if the collection agency can put it back on for I had been making payments to them not the original creditor. Are you sure that they can re set the clock with my credit reports since I made payments to the agency…my kitty won’t ever be able to have anything but Meow Mix…Thanks
Once an account reaches it’s SOL and you didn’t pay, can that agency then sell that account to another AGENCY, setting up a new set of SOL’s? Do these rules apply to judgments?
[...] Lynn, the Broke-Ass Student, offers advice for how to fight back against collection agencies. This is an excellent, thorough article that may be of use to those of you struggling to turn [...]
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This is a good post to see, and I don’t really want to “pick nits” but there are a few things that aren’t 100%.
As far as SOL goes, some states are as low as 3 years ( like Maryland), and some collectors and lawyers will claim 15 years in Ohio ( though, online sources tend to state anywhere from 4 to 6). One of the issues with that is, very rarely do cases go to trial and rarely do defendents know their rights and raise SOL as an affirmative defense. So there is little established caselaw backing it up. Also, there are some terrible judges, of course. So 4-6 doesn’t apply to EVERY state. But generally, that’s what you are looking at.
A CA/JDB can still sue you after the SOL ( though rare). You have to raise it as an affirmative defense.
Also the LEGAL SOL ( not to be confused with credit reporting SOL on CRAs) is entirely based on the state law. Tolling and re-starting vary state to state. In some states, paying or agreeing to pay some or all of the debt can restart the legal SOL ( though never the reporting SOL). However, this does not apply to all states. Some states have borrowing statutes ( for example if the SOL runs out in one state and then you move, you will be safe in the new state), but not all. And Tolling ( where the “clock stops” if you move between states) is also dependent on the states involved.
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[...] How to fight back against collection agencies by Broke Ass Student was her best post that appeared in the 2nd anniversary of the carnival of personal finance. It is a really comprehensive piece which is a must read for anyone who is facing this problem. [...]
Over a seven year period I received hundreds of threatening phone calls and letters from collection agencies who thought I was my younger brother, a deadbeat now in prison for a crime he got many years for. Nobody listened to me when I tried to explain that my relative would be in jail for the rest of his life, and that my name should be taken off the calling lists. The threats continued unabated. Finally I asked one collector “How would you like it if I placed an ad in Middle Eastern newspapers saying your firm was connected with Israeli intelligence agencies? The greaseball lawyer accused me of making threats, ha ha, this after I was threatened for years! Obviously fat ass lawyers and collection agencies are better at dishing it out then taking it! They have taken my name off their list, or so they said—and if they didn’t, that is okay too…………………………………
i have recently been hasled by a debt collection agencie for a gas bill up until april when i left the property in the december i was told to pay all dept in 48hrs and i should get a loan or a family member to loan me the money, they wer really mean to me and i am probably the most nieve/gulable person you could ever meet so now haha i am gona send them that letter thanks!!
[...] The beginning of this story can be found at Broke-Ass Student Just Got A Whole Lot Broker, with a bristled rebuttal at How To Fight Back Against Collection Agencies. [...]
This is good stuff. You should post it at http://www.ripoffreport.com, so a larger audience can see it and learn from your experience. In fact the whole story should be posted there, too. You’ve done good research.
I have been on both sides of the coin. I have had hard times and had debt collectors call me and I am now currently a debt collector. The shame of all of this information is it teaches people how to avoid paying debt. I talk to people all day who lie to me. When I had debt, I took legal channels to get out of the debt without avoiding it. The problem is America has become a nation of avoiders at repaying debt. Every debt is paid for by someone. If the debtor doesn’t pay for it then you and I do because the person to whom the debt is owed passes it on to those of us who pay our bills with higher charges and service fees. In every debt I had I was willing to contact those to whom I owed and work out an honest repayment plan. For those debts I didn’t owe I was able to take care of through legal dispute processes. Those who try to avoid taking care of their honest debt by just avoiding it are the reason debt collecting agencies exists. Most people would not go into a store and take a DVD or CD off the shelf and walk out with it. The debtor has received a service which he agreed to and has walked out without paying. What’s more, if someone stole from a store they would be arrested. The debtor steals services or goods and gets away with it because he is protected by the Fair credit act. Stealing is stealing. For instance, some of my work is with medical debt. When a person goes into a medical office and gets service and has medical insurance he signs a form with the doctor to pay all medical bills the insurance company does not cover. He also has a contract with the insurance company but the insurance company does not guarantee payment of any service under that contract. When the person gets treatment he alone is responsible for that bill and has signed contracts stating this fact. Yet when the insurance company doesn’t pay what he feels it should and when the doctor bills him for what it didn’t pay then the person feels he shouldn’t have to pay it, yet they are contracts he has signed and are legal contracts. He now thinks the doctor and the insurance company are to blame and not him because his rights are also protected by the fair credit rights.
I also believe in forgiveness of debts and this is a Biblical principle. Many however feel the blame for all their debt is the fault of everyone except himself. There are those who have fallen on hard financial times but very few debtors will own up to their debt and take the moral and ethical means to take care of them. I had one debtor call me and tell me they went to the doctors (all accept one) and those doctors forgave their debts. Others worked out payment plans. Some bargined for lower rates, some as much as a third of what they owed. The problem is a sense of moral decay in our society. When I was a kid credit was hard to get. What got you credit was a good name, either yours, or your parents who would speak for you. Credit cards didn’t come out till the 60’s. If you borrowed money and didn’t pay the debt you either lost what you had as collateral or you were made to work extra jobs to pay it off, and you were never loaned money again. Debt was a precious commodity you used sparingly. Sometimes you did without things you wanted or even needed to pay off a debt. Many of the people I call are talking to me on expensive cell phones or listening to cable tv instead of paying their debt. Some of the debts are over 6 years old and yet the people claim they are starving and can’t pay.
There are also those I have talked to who do not have jobs because they have gone through physical problems or on disability. There is a way of help and organizations for those who have honest reasons for not being able to pay. I know because I was out of work for 2 years because of physical problems before I found this job. All of my debts are paid and I actually have a high credit rating. I did it because I was willing to go to others for help and contact those who I owed immediately about my debts. I didn’t try to avoid my debt or lie about it blaming someone else.
this is great information to have.
a big part of the problem with unpaid debt is the outrageous interest rates that the banks charge. it seems like they are purposely made to keep the consumer in debt indefinitely.
in fact, thats exactly what happened to me.
i had a credit card which i was paying on time, and sending in more than the minimum amount due. my $3000 balance was actually shrinking, and I was motivated to pay it off. then one day, the interest rate on this account went from 13.9% to 23.9%. when i called to ask why, I was basically told that it was “because its something we can do”. Huh??? Yet I continued to send payments. However, because of the highter interest rates, my balance was only going down about $30 a month…. when I had paid over $100!!!!
So, out of frustration I said screw this-and a few weeks later, the harrassing calls started. and the $3000 balance has now morphed into over $7000!!!
Not everybody that is unable to pay off their debts is a thief. In fact, with all the interest I paid on this account, I have paid off the amount I borrowed, and then some.
Credit cards can be valuable tools when used correctly. Unfortunately, they are far too easy to come by. I was a broke ass student when I got my first credit cards and if it wasnt for these good laws that protect us ALL, I’d still be paying for mistakes I made as a kid.
Avoid the credit cards as much as possible. They’re a damn trap!
Jennifer Lyn, kudos to you. Your article is a godsend.
I have a legitmate debt with FedEx that was apparentl forwarded to a collection agency. I have no problem with paying the debt, I would’ve paid sooner if it weren’t for the fact that I went out of business and has since only recovered now.
Here’s my problem though, how do you challenge the debt collector’s “FEES”. My original debt is only $675, and this agency is demanding a ridiculous $200 extra for collection fees… is this right? How do I dispute this?
First to John poe,
About this statement: There is a way of help and organizations for those who have honest reasons for not being able to pay.
Where are they?? We can’t find anyone to help!
Now for my sons help,
Last summer my 24 yr old son broke his neck swimming. Had a hosp stay and surgery. Many bills are pilling up from this. He’s been out of work for a yr now and SS has turned him down so far. Medicade has turned him down on helping with hosp. bills. Each week I recieve many letter or phone calls from collector wanting him to pay his bills now.. How can he, he is getting $240.00 a month from the state to live on. And 120.00 for a months worth of food. He had to move back hom because he could not afford his apt. an longer. He was a plumber with out insurance. Now he has to start life out with a $50,000.00 detb.
what do we do…
Regarding John Poe,
I am in the middle dealing with a Debt Collection Agency. The issue has been, is that the Medical Facility filed the claim to the wrong insurance. I had numerous phone calls between the billing department, regarding the inusrance matter. Before calling, I made sure, that I was correct. in other words, I reviewed the Insurances Hand Book and such.
My Primary Insurance is Medicare, and my secondary is CHAMPVA. Folks keep on billing Tri-Care formerly Champus. Even so, I made copies of my insurance cards, including, pointing out which is the primary and that CHAMPVA is NOT Tri-Care/Champus, and now added in big letters, CHAMPVA Address to where to send the claim to.
The claim I am fighting with are for services received in 2003 and 2004.
I have proof of the errors.
Per CHAMPVA Policy states: Provider cannot turn you over to collections for this date of service, because this was their error not your or CHAMPVA’s. The Policy states: The provider cannot seek payment from the beneficiary when the provider fails to meet the timely filing requirements and a waiver was not granted.
The bottom line, is that, prior to receiving any medical care, I make sure, that the services are covered, and to what extent. In other words be responsible and informed.
To John Poe:
You state that as a debt collector, you deal with medical debts on occassion. You assert that people who have services rendered and then do not pay are essentially stealing. First of all, not all people who cannot afford to pay their medical bills are deadbeats. I was in a bike accident a couple of years ago and blacked out on the way to the emergency room. What started out as a leisurely bike ride on the waterfront ended up costing me $23,000. I didn’t have insurance. I was unemployed at the time. I received bills from 5 different radiologists who allegedly each performed CT scans and MRI’s on me and all were supposedly performed on the same day. I’m not a medical doctor, but I find it hard to believe that performing five $1,500 identical tests on one day would shed any light onto my situation. My point is, yes, I am disputing those charges. They are now with a debt collection agency, and until they provide proof of services rendered, I will not pay.
Secondly, you equate falling behind on payments with being morally devoid. No, I call large corporations and banks who prey on consumers–advertise to them things they don’t need as absolute necessities, extending credit with high interest rates with the clear understanding that a consumer will most likely default in the future–I call that bad business sense. Defaulting on credit payments is not at all like stealing. I would expect nothing less than a comment like that coming from a debt collecter such as yourself. A creditor and debtor enter into contractual agreement with arbitration clauses including legal remedies a creditor may take–all outlined in the contract if a debtor defaults. None of those include criminal penalty. They do include civil remedies, but in our society and under our laws, civil judgements are not considered criminal offenses…so I argue your assertion that defaulting is equivalent to stealing, because stealing is a criminal offense.
In my case, I ran into the problem of credit cards when I was 18 and started college. The credit card companies set up tents on campus, lined one next to another down the sidwalks, and offered students everything from free t-shirts to free pizzas to chances of winning a free car in order to get them to fill out an application. There were no educational resources about the potential troubles one could get into with a credit card, and yes, I was a legal adult at age 18, but that doesn’t mean I was properly equipped to handle one credit card, let alone the 8 that I was eventually granted. I didn’t lie on my applications for credit. I indicated that I was unemployed and a full time student. I was directed by the people representing the banks to write down student loan disbursements and other scholarship awards as my source of income. Not knowing any better, I did. So here I am with 8 credit cards, and I’m only 18 years old. My total credit available between the 8 cards was nearly $12,000 by the end of my first year in college. What responsible lender issues that kind of credit to a person they know full well is a student and has no steady source of income? Of course, during the following years, I ran up the bills and made the minimum payments which didn’t even cover finance charges until one day the balances began exceeding my credit limits. Then I was assessed $35 over limit fees on each account every month. It was a nasty neverending cycle. I began paying some late because I only had enough money to pay some of the bills–but not all which in turn bumped my great introductory APR’s to the loansharking default rates. Then one day it hit me–no matter how hard I tried, I was always going to be over limit and would never be able to pay down the balances. I defaulted. I defaulted on every single one of them. Sure, it has haunted me for the past 7 years or so and I’ve received my fair share of collections calls and letters, but the statute of limitations on those debts has run out now. I don’t legally owe them one red cent. They may not report the debts to the credit bureaus any longer, and as much as they like, they can call me or write to me for payment, but I don’t have to pay! I love talking with collection agency representatives now. I never acknowledge or admit any debt they try to collect, but it is fun to engage them in argument. I’ve been threatened with jail time and lawsuits–lawsuits on things that the statute of limitations ran out on 3 years ago. I just get the address and send a certified/return receipt requested letter requesting validation of the debt in question and proof that they are legally allowed to collect on it and voila, no further contact.
You say that default debtors are deadbeats. Well, I say that collection agencies are deadbeats. My general opinion of collections agencies is that they lie, cheat, and steal–just like they claim bad debtors do. Oh, and I can say this knowing full well that my credit score is 740. I now know how to responsibly manage credit, but in the event that something dreadful happens to my finances ever again, I also know how to effectively deal with debt collectors. Debtors should NOT be scared, they should NOT be intimidated, and they should ALWAYS learn their rights under both the Fair Credit Reporting Act and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.
Merchants’ Credit Guide Co is a cheat and major bottom feeder. They try to collect on anything that moves. They don’t care if your credit can be effected or not as long as they can convince you to pay anything even if you don’t have any outstanding balances. Watch out for them and report them to the Federal Trade Commision and your State’s Attorney General. They deserve to be punished. Good luck all.
John Poe states: “I did it because I was willing to go to others for help and contact those who I owed immediately about my debts. I didn’t try to avoid my debt or lie about it blaming someone else.”
Of course you avoided your debt - you simply got others to take care of it for you. You were not out of work for 2 years and paying all of your debts yourself. And you certainly were not supporting yourself, unless you were standing on a street corner, holding a “down on my luck” sign - in which case you were taking money from others without doing an honest days work.
No, I’m sorry to say that you are simply a debt collector who has hijacked this board to try and use guilt and shame against those who have either fallen on hard times or have legitimately been abused by collection agencies. You have not experienced the hard times you tried so hard to ‘eloquently’ espouse. I sincerely doubt you have ever had to make a financially uncomfortable decision in your life. Those who have, could not work in the industry you have chosen.
How do you deal with repairing your credit once your original debt is sold to a collection agency? At this point, your debt is sold off and now the validation process begins. What is the best strategy to get your credit report fixed up?
I followed your advice, it worked great on the collection agency, but the collection agency sent the debt back to the original company and they won’t drop the debt, even with validated & notarized proof. What do I do now?? If I could afford an attorney, these people would make me rich, but I cannot, so please help me.
I’m interested to know, lets say, if one was to mess with the collectors, like call them back and ask them to pay for all the time they’ve wasted in my life. Would that count for restarting SOL. I think we should all take 15 min. out of our days to find out where these collectors live and get there phone numbers and there history and harrass them as they have done to us. Mabye thats the problem. See, Credit card collectors want us to be upset and overwhelmed, so we agree to things we don’t understand. But if we make there lives a living hell, mabye they’ll quit their jobs. And hopefully they’re religous, so they have a nice place in hell when they die.
I am in a mess with a debt collector right now. They called me on my cell phone while I was in the hospital with my mother. They told me I owed this debt of $4000 to Sears and it had to be paid within the month. Well, if I had that kind of money I wouldn’t have been getting a call from them in the first place. They wouldn’t take no for an answer. They wouldn’t get off the phone. They wouldn’t let me call them back at another time. Finally out of frustration I let them set up a “payment plan” which involved them drafting my account for $2000. I didn’t have that money, but it’s the only way I could get rid of them and get back to my sick mother. Now they are threatening to send me to jail for “bouncing a check to them.” What do I do now? I have hired an attorney and tonight they called and said they don’t deal with attorneys that I bounced a check to them and that’s illegal and they will fight it to the fullest extent of the law! Does anyone have any advice for me?
My daughter is going to court tomorrow for a debt that is 10 years old. The sol was up 4 years ago. She has no paperwork that she can find and she never received any documentation from the collection agency as stated in the court papers that she was to receive. She has never talked to the creditors either. If we say to the judge the sol is up, apparently he doesn’t have to go by that. The judge can do whatever he wants. My daughter wrote the judge and told him the sol is up and her circumstances 10 years ago and the judge still choose to let the suite stand. What kind of defense can she actually have? Will she be allowed to even speak? It’s all a mystery. Her and her husband both work, barely getting by, with 3 children and 1 more they are paying child support on. They can’t pay and still have a roof and food.
We need advise fast.
Leslye,
Sounds like harrassment to me counter sue for harrassment and I don’t believe they don’t deal with attorneys, they just don’t want to. If you have a good attorney they should know what to do.
Good Luck
I have been hounded by Midland credit management for the past few months about a debt that has passed it’s statute of limitation and i have sent the letter of validation and am hoping it works as this is ridiculous that these bums can grab an out old of date debt and renew it
I have just received a legal looking form “motion for order enforcing Litigant’s rights” I gave the lawyer information just a year ago and recently they asked the same questions. This time I ignored them and they are now threatening me with motions. I am a disabled heart transplant recipient on Social Security and cannot give them anything. Why do they keep bothering me?
I live in Nevada.I recently recieved a letter from a collections agency wanting a debt payed from a towing company for towing fees and storage of a car ($1800) that I gave to a private person who had a hobby junk yard that doesn’t exsist anymore.
I wrote a bill of sale and signed the title over to him over 3 years ago.He must have sold the car for parts to someone else who dumped the car in the desert.The collections agency says the towing company recieved info from the DMV that I was the last one to registered the car,so I am responsible for the debt. How can I handle this mess?
Thanks
Thank you Jennifer! I’ve dealt with one of these collection agency’s.There scum bags for sure and given enough rope they’ll hang themselves. One trip to my lawyer,one call to them by my lawyer,and it was all done. That’ll teach em to call after 6……..oh yea and 32 bucks for that lawyer call…lol….but it was well worth it! .
PS
Sounds like Kyle makes quite a bit!
OMG, this is just the relief I was waiting for in a long time.
Thanks A lot.
These sleazy debt collectors break collection laws all the time. It is sad how many uneducated people let these collectors intimidate them into giving them money they are not legally entitled to. Once the original creditor writes off the debt, it’s usually best to ride out the statute of limitations rather than start the clock over by paying anything on it.
Hey,
This website restores my faith in humanity. (a bit of an exageration but very sincere not sarcastic) These scumbags feed on the poor and working and that really ticks me off in an almost Marxist sort of way. OK, so here is my story. I attended a rather expensive privite college (hindsight is always 50/50) and I had to take out loans to pay for my last year and a half. Well there was some error somewhere and my loans didn’t quite cover my tuition cost by $4500. After failing to pay I was disenrolled and a year later they sent the debt to a collection agency called AR resources based out of Blue Bell PA. They contacted me an I cant remember if I admitted guilt or if the phone call was recorded but I do remember asking for proof of the debt and all they sent me was a billing statement. I haven’t paid them a cent as of yet. However, since I want to finish my degree I got a job at a high paying foundery an paid the $4500 I owe to the college business office, who continued to send me billing statements form the college not the collectors. The collectors have been asking for another $1200 on top of the $4500. The guy calls me from his cell phone and calls me “sport”, so I’m piticularly irratated with this A-hole, but I,ve kept my cool so far. I have checked my credit history since paying the debt and it is sill on all three of my reports that I still owe him $5700. So under the advice of my stepdad I filed a dispute with the three agencies, but they want me to state my dispute in 150 charaters or less and well thats kind of rediculous. Then all they did was foward it to the collector who naturally turned me down. So im asking you kindly what should I do now. I appreciate your website. You are an asset to whats left of humanity and I hope you continue to help those who are in need especially those worse off then me. I also appoligize for my grammer and spelling as I just got off a 12 hour night shift I’m a bit to tired to edit this.
Thank you,
Adam
You are a life saver. may God bless you.
Can the State of Ohio garnish your Social Security if you are retired? They keep insisting it’s personal income, however, has not shown me what they are referring to. When I called today, he said since he has to obtain the documentation the amount will be due and payable in full at that time.
For the past 3 months, I’ve received phone calls after phones calls from collectors with a light-hearted conversation looking for someone with my last name, not living here. Then, the calls became more intense on my last name, but different first name. Then the callers begin to ask if I knew person with my first and last name living in Denver, Colorado. Is this harassment or what? Do I need to find a lawyer, and quick? I am unemployed needing legal help.
I m currently being sued in court for a debt that has passed the statue of limitations. A lawsuit was filed July 2007, but the 4 year sol ended in July 2007 as well, I am currently still pending a court hearing, can the debt buyers still collect the debt if they filed the lawsuit before the sol expired, but have not had a hearing in court?
This is for 39john poe
I have to diagree with part of your comment. I have not been on both sides of the coin, but I have a problem with creditors who are inpatient with people and just want to write off debts.
In my situtation I was laid off of my job, I contacted my creditor to inform them of this, they put me on their payment plan, I contacted them at a later dated to inform them that I could not continue with the $200 payments and asked if they would reduce the monthly payments, they would NOT accept my offer, so therefore they charged off the account.
In this type of situation I don’ feel a collection agency of anyone else has the right to collect because the person attemtped to work with the creditor and the creditor decided to charge off the account.
Hi,
I have a question. I live in PA and am being sued in civil court for an old credit card debt. I want to work on this debt. It is around $3000 but that includes interest, attorney fees, etc. I believe the original debt was around $2000 or less. Anyway, what is the best way to approach this collection agency before the court date to set up payment terms. I know they can not garnish my wages in PA, but can they take my car, even if I am still making payments on it. It is really my only asset, as my bank account is negilible. I do not own anything else or have hidden accounts, etc. I am only asking in case we can not come up with a payment plan. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
I sent you an email but make sure you have everything validated in writing from the collection agency if you decide to settle.
This is great to know! I do have some question however.
I acquired some debt while going to college in California, only two credit cards equaling to about $1500 all together. I am now living in AZ. Is my SOL paused because I am no longer living in CA? Mind you the last time I even remember making a payment was about 2003. I do not even plan to ever move back there (not that I hated it, just have no reason to). It’s such a small amount, especially when in comparison to my student loan debts (which I will have no issues paying off) and the country’s average credit card debt. I am curious about their ability to collect. I do not own a house, nor do i have a car, I hardly have an income since I am living mostly off my meager student loans, so I’d have nothing for them to take.
Ok, official questions: Is my SOL up even though I live in another state? I also noticed that one of the companies are based in another state which I have never lived, so is it then obliged by that state or CA where I lived?
Thanks for the article, it is such a reassurance!
I have a bill from a contractor that has just been sent to collections. The bill was for some work that had done but was incomplete.
Part of the work that needed to be done was to fix something that they had fixed before and was still under warranty.
That work was not done and I told them that I would pay them as soon as they fixed the problem that was still under warranty.
What can I do to get this resolved without going to court?
I have no problem paying them if they fix what was still under warranty.
Is there anyway to safe gaurd my credit.
Very informative post. I have an issue and would like any help possible. I leased a 06 subaru impreza financed through Chase. Feb 07 I traded the car in to a dealership. The dealership sold the car without a clear title and NEVER paid it off. They then closed and filed bankruptcy and chase has sent me to collections. I get probably 12-15 calls a day demanding payment. The dealer plead guilty to some sort of fraud and is being sentenced August 4th to pay restitution but somehow the $14,000 he owes Chase was not included.
I certainly do not want to pay $14,000 for a car I havent had for nearly a year and a half. Chase says I am financially responsible for the car even though I traded it to a dealer. The state of michigan has issued a clear title to the new owner so I doubt I can repo it anymore. The reason I just found out about this, is because the dealer made a payment on the car for $3000. While I assumed things were settled. Just recently chased has started calling me, its about two months behind.
I dont know what to do. I doubt I can afford the payments but should I try to make it current until the court settles things, file bankruptch myself, or just let it go to collections?
Hi… A sheriff appeared at my door today to give me a notice of a hearing in our county courthouse. When I called the collection agency listed in the action, they told me that I had to pay the entire amount (1200.00) immediately to stop the court action. According to the court papers, I have 20 days to hire an attorney or they will automatically enter a judgement against me (actually it’s my husband’s debt, so it would be against him). The problem is that I don’t know what this is concerning. They claim it’s a Sears debt. I had a Sears card one time that I paid and closed. The gentleman from the collection agency said to send proof. When I went to find my last bill, the account numbers don’t match. When my husband came home, he said he THINKS this is a debt of his (his name is on the paperwork) from 1995. (A discovery credit card). In 1997 he settled with Discovery for the 800.00 they wanted. About 4 years later, when he checked his Credit report it said that Sears had bought the debt in 2001. (There is no more debt, but it was 15 years ago and we were in college, so no proof).
The gentleman from the collection agency said that there was a 30.00 payment made in Nov. 2004 (WHAT????).
So my question is…. Can you still dispute the debt and ask them to verify the debt after they sent it to a court hearing? Does the SOL (in Pa it’s 4 years) still count or is that the reason for the magical 30.00 payment? Don’t they have to be able to tell you what the hell the original debt is for? I don’t even know for sure what this debt is for! I hate to spend the money for an attorney and then have to pay them too!
Thanks so much for any help!
One thing you should correct on your sample letter is the signature. You should never sign anything you send to a collection agency to prevent that signature from migrating to other pieces of paper. Just type your name and leave it at that.
I have attempted to resolve my debt with the original account holder, and unfortunately - and I don’t know why - they sold my account to a third party. I have been ENDLESSLY harrassed, along with multiple calls to multiple family members (where do they get this information???) I wish to resolve my issue without dealing with this third party (most of my research indicates they are a fraudulent company) - so, if I send this letter, and they are able to provide paperwork… what happens then?
I have a debt to a school that I went to in 2006. They called me for a while and then stopped. I recently talked to a debt collector about it, but didnt set up a payment plan. I asked if I could start the payments back up with the company. The school cost me 6k and when I talked to them, they said that I would have to pay the amount in full and then plus interest which he said would come to about 10k not counting the attorney fees after the debt appears in court. I was also told since I went to school for my CDL license, that it would be suspended because my debt was paid. They could reinstated when the debt was paid off. It was 12/2006 when opened and closed in 9/2007. How do go about the debt, its really affecting my credit and I dont know what to do. I have a hard time trying to get anything from anyone because of this debt. I can’t even finance a piece of bubble gum. I really need some advice on this. Thanks for the help from anyone except debt collectors. I would really appreciate it. Thanks again!
I unfortunately got a student loan in 1998 in order to get my Bachelor’s degree. This was at a school in Alaska and was very expensive. I ended up owing $54,000. I initially tried to pay this off, but the payments were so high, $550 and it never paid off any of the debt, just some of the interest. Over the years living in Alaska was very expensive and I couldn’t pay anymore on the debt. When student loan would call me, I would tell them I could pay $200, but not $550. They deferred the loan for 6 months, but the interest just added up to over $56,000. Now they have turned it over to a collection agency who added over $17,000 because they said I refused to pay the debt. I couldn’t pay the debt, I told them that, but they wouldn’t listen. They kept telling me to give them a blank check, or to go to the bank and get a loan for $66,000. No one will give me a loan and I told them that. I need some advice on this. This is Alaska State Student Loan. I truly want to pay this debt off, but I don’t see how I will ever be able to.
I have a question. If I don’t pay my debt within the SoL time limit. Would that show up on the my credit report? Would it say “This person didn’t pay their debt” and be permanently etched there? Just wondering…thanks
Aven–> any deliquent accounts will appear for 7 years regardless.
Kerry–> send the letter and it should stop ALL calls. If they call, log/record every contact because each instance is a $1k fine which you can win guaranteed in court under the FCRA. If they respond to the letter then you now have more information on what they possibly have against you. You do absolutely nothing except wait for your SOL to expire according to the laws of your state. Once it expires, they cannot legally do anything to force you to pay. If they file suit before then, then you typically must answer their complaint within 30 days by going to your court and simply filing an answer form (you’ll have to read online to learn about this process). You go through the motions of civil litigation and ultimately try to settle with the CA at the last minute for 30-40% of the original balance. Otherwise, you go to court and hope they don’t show up and win thereby dismissing the case. (many do not show up) There’s a lot more to it obviously, but that is the gist of it.
Anyone is welcome to email me for advice at greedyngreen@hotmail.com. Though I will tell you outright that I don’t know about student loans (mine was Credit Card debt), and I’m only familiar with the specifics in California. Long story short, I’ve had a nightmare experience myself and after getting 1 default judgement, I wised-up and started fighting back. I’ve been able to have 2 of my cases dismissed thusfar and I cannot tell you how unbelievably painful it was to find my way.
Thank you! I used your letter to demand debt validation and the collection agency went from “pay us or we will hunt you down” to “oh sorry, you don’t have to pay that bill anymore.” this was only a matter of $250 but it really helped not to have to pay it as I too am a broke-ass student. You, however, are THE Broke-Ass Student and we honor your name. :>)
Do you have to sign the validation letter? Several websites indicate that signing the letter can lead to more difficulties, if dealing with a direputable firm.
I don’t believe that is necessary. The important thing is that you have record/proof through registered mail with return receipt showing that you requested debt validation. The court is likely only going to care that you followed due dillegence on your part to send the request for validation.
I can see why some might be skeptical about signing as they don’t want some shady CA to be copying and using your signature against you…and yes, they are all shady.
greedyngreen-> Thank you for your response. Despite all the wonderful information on the net, it’s still daunting to deal with these nefarious characters. It is one thing to make a mistake, but to have to pay for it over and over is scary.
Received a call from a CA that I was unprepared for. I agreed that I owed the money and worked out a payment plan. The CA wanted my banking information over the phone. I refused to give it to them said I would mail them a payment, they said they don’t do business that way. They sent me an e-mail on their company letterhead just stating who the creditor was, the amount and the payment arrangements. Is it to late for me to sent a debt validation letter since I’ve agreed that I owe the money? How do I know for sure that this company is legitimate?
My two cents on how to avoid bill collectors is real simple…..Pay your bills and do not assume debt. Simple heh?
Stacey. It is not too late. First off, make sure the debt is still within the statute of limitations for your state. For example, in California, if 4 years have passed since you first missed payment, collection agencies cannot do anything legally to force you to pay. If you’re past the statute time limit, you don’t have to pay any attention to their worthless attempts.
If you’re still within the SOL, then you still hold out, especially if they haven’t filed a lawsuit against you. Don’t worry about your agreement. Worst case scenario, if they recorded the conversation or obtained written confirmation from you admitting the debt is yours, they can file suit and will likely win their case based on the evidence (likely the only real evidence they actually have) you provided them.
Either way, you can give them cash right now (because you enjoy giving your money away), or make them pay to get every penny (I strongly suggest this). Whatever evidence they actually have, you’ll find out in court. If they’re like 99% of other CA’s, they won’t have the original contract or be able to provide much aside from a statement that is 5 years old with your name on it (if that). Many of these CA’s file suit simply hoping to get a default (meaning you never file a response with the court or appear at trial). Please learn more about the truths of collection practices, a great place I recommend is debtorboards.com.
Put the bastards out of business. When they call you, act very contrite and helpfl. Get their name, address and phone number. Get the name of the person you are speaking with and their extenstion number. Then proceed to call them a million times a day. Call and tie up that persons’ extenstion. It is not against the law to keep caling someone. If it were, they wouldn’t be able to harass people. Call after hours and fill up their voicemail. I record my favorite TV show on their voicemail. REMEMBER, you are calling a toll free number. This costs them money and it frustrates them. Just like they frustrate you.
I had an electronics company send me a defective item and refuse to give me a refund. I called them the SAME day it arrived and they said they didn’t gaurantee it would work. I was furious. I kept calling for a refund and they told me that my calls were costing them money. I guess it was a mom and pop. The lightbulb went off. The item costs $50. I called their free number hundreds of times over the next week. I asked them what they were going to do about it….change their number? I would get it from toll free directory. Think of the business they would lose during the transition. I had the POWER. WE HAVE THE POWER TO SHUT THESE PEOPLE DOWN. Post this idea on your blogs, websites and send an email to all your friends. ALL POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!
I received a default judgement (one of which I was not aware that there was even a lawsuit against me) in the mail at my PO Box from a law office representing the collection agency who “bought” my credit card debt from nearly 9 years ago. How do I overturn such a default? Stupidly I called the law office thinking they were something else. I did not let them know that I had received the default. I feel like I am in a jam now not knowing which way to turn let alone how to fight this lawsuit that was actually file in May 2008 with a default going out in January 2009!
To Julene,
If it’s a student loan debt, it’s usually not dischargable via bankruptcy, but I’m not sure about your rights when it goes to collections.
I hate to say, if you waited until the collection agency, I’m not sure this is an option for you anymore, but you can always ask:
If you are still able to arrange payments with the Student Loan company, try consolidation and/or change the terms for repayment to income-contingent. That basically means they can only charge what you can afford, based on your income. If your income is zero, they charge you zero. After 25 years, whatever is left will be written off and you won’t owe anything. You will still have to pay taxes on the remainder, but that’s small compared to the debt.
If that option is unavailable, a judge might be able to discharge it with bankruptcy proceedings, since its the agency trying to collect now and not the student loan office. Follow the article above and contact legal aid to find out what you can do and how much its going to set you back.
Krystal,
Did you sign for a summons for the suit?
If not, the judgment was obtained by fraud. You were never subjected to the personal jurisdiction of the court. The judgment against you was void, because the court lacked personal jurisdiction over you at the time it rendered its judgment due to the fraud perpetrated by the plaintiff. Especially if you didn’t live in the state that issued the judgment.
If the debt is beyond the Statutes of Limitations, then you will need to find out the date of the last default. Low income or disability might make you eligible for free legal aid. Otherwise, find a lawyer that offers free consultations and see what your options are.
If it can be proved that the collections agency violated the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, you may be entitled to an award for the court costs and damages.
Maveth,
I did not sign for a summons, but I found that the law office requested an exception to the rule in regards to how they could serve me with a summons - via USPS which they sent to an address I did not reside in 2008. I entered an “Answer” to their default judgement request as well as a Motion to dismiss the case due to “bad service”. Both were sent to the law office via snail mail, certified with request for return receipt. The day after I mailed these…the law office sent a letter with a “settlement” offer. It being tax season and all! Funny how one minute they are suing me, requesting a default then want to “settle”. I sent them a “validation of debt” letter - again via snail mail, certified return receipt.
In July I received a notification (via mail.. I can’t remember if I signed for it or not, I’d have to go look) about a court hearing for a debt I didn’t know about. My husband called the collection agency and they couldn’t find any info about the debt. I sent a certified letter (it was Aug by now) to the Collection agency and the attorney on the court papers asking to verify the debt (I copied the one from this website). I never heard back. I came back from a vacation in Jan. to a letter saying that I was found guilty by default and owe someone 1500.00. I still don’t even know what the debt is for and never heard back from anyone since the original letter in July! Can they do this? Do I really owe this money? Do I have ANY recourse?
Thanks!
J.
Edited to say that my story is still up above… LOL! That day (July 23rd.) was the last time any one contacted me about anything!
I found this post for you from Debtorboards.com:
I am not an expert here, but I had a similar situation. I had a default judgment, I filed a Motion to Vacate the Judgment, and a hearing date was set. It turned out, the lawyers didn’t show up, so my motion was granted and the judgment became null and void.
First of all, you probably want to verify if there is/was a judgment against you. For all you know, the CA could be making up things and see where the chips may fall. Go straight to the courtroom and ask the clerk to give you all court documents, summons, proof of services, copy of judgment etc… The clerk might ask you for a the Case Number to access your file. In California, court documents are scanned and posted on the courtroom website. Check to see if they do the same in your state.
If you find judgment, you can file motion to vacate judgment. You can only do so within 180 days from the moment the default judgment was entered. In some cases, 2 years if you didn’t know that you had a judgment…. and it depends from state to state.
For the CA to garnish wages, they have to obtain court order to do so.
In anyways, fight them tooth and nail if you weren’t served. Research for similar cases, or hire an attorney if need be.
My notes: You can overturn the judgement by going through the vacate process and even file claims for violations. It’s alot of homework researching your options but you shouldn’t let these rodents get away with this…good luck!
Here’s another post on “sewer service” from Debtorboards.com
Last year, within weeks, my wife and I received judgment notices resulting from sewer service from two different law firms, one of which was Sharinn & Lipshie. We had a lawyer friend, a close friend of my wife’s from high school so I talked with her. She had me send the stuff related to my wife’s case (before the other judgement arrived) and sat on it. She eventually sent me some unintelligible forms to help get it vacated.
At a loss with what she had sent me, what I did was faxed a letter to the court complaining she was never properly served along with a copy of the service affadavit I obtained from the court stating we had no such neighbor, and in fact, there was no such address. That they, in fact, filed a false document, and also suggested that the city attorney should have a look at this.
Within days, my wife had a copy of a letter the judge sent the attorneys telling them that my fax had been entered as a motion, to stop collection activities, and to respond within X number of days and that a traverse hearing would be scheduled if needed.
Of course, they complained, especially about my not having standing though they were after jointly owned accounts (this was not Sharinn & Lipshie). The judge ordered a hearing. They never showed up. It was dismissed.
The point is, since this is serious enough, a simple letter of complaint faxed to the court just might do it without a lot of paper work and fiiling. I waited weeks for examples of paper work from a lawyer, and in both cases my faxes did the trick. This, of course, will depend on the court. It was a serious issue and I hoped it would get serious attention, which it did.
dammit… i should have known this information…
now, i have paid portion of the debt and it has been well over 30 days since their first contact. i’ve actually paid all my debt except the ridiculous debt charge they have put on. they are saying they will report to credit agency in 10 days if its not paid, which i am refusing to pay.
what can i do? i need some help. thanks.
To “Oops”.
Some thoughts to consider here…
Now that the dirtbags have already made a huge profit after paying pennies on the dollar for your debt, they are simply trying to take you for the extra lap. One big question I have is whether you had pre-negotiated a percentage payoff with the collector prior to making any payment. I have NEVER seen a case where the debt collector would not accept a 70% or even lower amount of the total “balance” as an offer to settle the debt. If you haven’t negotiated anything off the original amount, my guess is the amount you’ve paid is likely what you could have gotten quite easily as a full settlement had you pre-negotiated. Bottom line is, the bottom-dwellers will take any penny they can get because it’s all profit to them. Remember that when you talk to them and that everything they say is a scare tactic designed to get you emotional and afraid. If I were you, considering that you paid off what I’m guessing is the bulk of the amount they asked for, you might as well finish it, but not without a fight and your own demand letter that it be a “pay for delete” off your credit record. For example, you offer to pay X% in exchange for a “pay for delete”. They may not be able to remove the item from your credit report, but they can certainly “overlook” verification from the Credit Bureau when you go through the credit bureau dispute process. Once invalidated, that record can never appear on your credit again. If they say they can’t do that, it’s a lie. They can very much decide which accounts they will and will not validate to any credit bureau. Key is that you need that in writing with agreement for your X% payoff.
My logic is if you’re going to payoff a penny more than you already have, at least get it removed from your credit report with a guarantee so you have something to show for your money. It would be truly painful to see that you pay their asking and still end up with a damaged credit report for years even after paying.
You can tell that you’re not in the greatest position to negotiate though because you’ve pretty much handed your bargaining chips across the table already. By making payment you unknowingly reset the statute of limitations by validating that the debt is yours (payment you made is validation that you accept ownership of the debt). However, I wouldn’t lose all hope though because I guarantee you they are just as deparate to get that last penny as they were the 1st. Keep your head up and may you never get bamboozled again.
Also, try the board I recommended as there may be plenty of other advice out there for you as well. Good Luck!
One more very important thing to note. If you make payment on one debt and it shows on your credit report in any way showing it’s a “settled account” or “settled for less than balance owed, etc”, if you happen to have other outstanding debts out there I would very much expect to receive further lawsuits as the sharks will surely come once they see that you actually payout. If that’s the case, I strongly suggest getting yourself up-to-speed on fighting back.
hey.. thank you so much for the info. yes, i was stupid not knowing/researching what to do before anything happened. stupid mistake. i was even verbally harrassed by the original creditor’s accounting office personal (my school) when i tried to do something about it after knowing i still owed money to school!!! now i just have a hostile feeling toward my own school that i was proud to graduate from.
i know i have lost most of leverages at this point. but i will see what i can do. i started with the letter you recommended above for a start. i will be looking into everything i can do at this point.
thanks again for the info and encouragement!
will keep you posted.
Update..
It is really important to check the SOL in the state you reside should legal action be taken. I recently found that most credit card debt in AZ falls under AZ Statute 12-543 which is three years. Any time after that for a debt…the debt is “time-barred”. According to the FTC a collector may continue its efforts to collect on time-barred debts; however, they may not use the courts to do so. No threat of suing or the act of suing may be done and if sued the Defendant should file a motion to have the case dismissed indicating that the debt is indeed, time-barred. I am in the process of preparing my motion to have my case dismissed. I may have to go so far as indicate that the original credit card agreement was executed in Colorado vs. AZ in which case the Attorney would have until May 2009 to initiate lawsuit as the SOL in Colorado is six years.
Unfortunately, you have a lot to learn because quite a bit of this information is wrong. If you have a credit card debt medical debt etc. you signed a contract stating you are responisble for that debt and if you actual read the contract in there you will see that they can legually charge you intrest, late fees, and if sent to collection agency you could also be responsible for collection fees. What you have told ppl is false and you should really get your facts write. Not to mention, the reason the economy is in the spot were in is from ppl borrow money , spending money that isn’t actually there and not paying it back. And collection agencies do send out letters stating they are the ones who own the debt now but alot of ppl throw it out with out opening or knowing because it might look like junk mail and because of law collection agencies cannot advertise that they are a collection agency
for the ppl who claim that because they are so far in debt or haven’t paid debt in 6yr. is soley because ppl are running from the debt and once the game is done of cat and mouse you are still obligated to pay your debt! and if you are saying that you no insurance no job who fault is that come on cry the blues else where. i’m so sick of hearing pitty me stories, you made the debt had no problems shopping at macy’s jcpenny’s ect.
ppl are so quick to deny ownership of debt but the ones who are honest do not get any slack what gives i have to pay out of my check are house, house insurance, car, car insurance, propane, thing i need to have for me and my kids to survice and still manage to keep myself out of debt!
You make a point that there are those out there that may very well take advantage of lenders and use their credit as a means to spending/gaining funds to enrich themselves with no intention to never pay back.
However, by and large, millions of debtors are actually exploited on a daily basis and in their vulnerable financial state, often preyed upon and taken advantage of by Credit Card companies, and ESPECIALLY collectors!
My personal case in point. My financial situation through college supporting myself forced me to utilize credit cards as a means of survival. Just about every dollar I charged was for necessities such as books, food, and living expenses. I worked to supplement my studies through college and over the college years I had built up a sizeable debt that resulted in a minimum monthly payment close to $700.
Throughout my college years and even a few after, I paid every month on time never missing a payment. Surely you know that the interest I had paid alone on that debt was enough to pay off the entire balance owed. Then one day I started getting letters from the credit card companies advising that my interest rate was being raised from 7-9% to 25-29.9%. I remember my minimum payment jumping to what was practically a Rent payment (in Los Angeles) and immediately realizing that I was at a financial crossroad.
My decision was to payoff Credit Card debt for the next XX years eventually paying off 3 times the balance I originally borrowed, or to file for bancruptcy. Right about this time my career to a hard stop (out of my control) and that was the straw that ended my 6+ years of repayment.
Then began the harrassment and lies from all the collectors that I spoke to when trying to make things right.
Long story short, you are the one that is mistaken and need to get your facts straight…Credit card companies and lenders regularly take advantage of those in vulnerable positions, offsetting the already pre-calculated risks they are knowingly taking when extending credit in the first place by lining 100 page “legal contracts” in size 4 font print, written in terms that 99% of Americans cannot understand. This housing bust is a hoax because the banks have been through the motions before and practically set things up this way so the 1% who actually have the money can cash in and buy in again at dirt costs.
If you happen to be the “honest” debtor who is repaying or staying away from debt entirely, Lucky You.
I was contacted by a collection agency for American Express that my soon-to-be ex husband, who is now incarcerated for X # of years, had and had put me as a “supplemental card user”; I was told 6 mos ago by Am Ex customer rep, I was not responsible for the debt it was in his name and made no payments and received no correspondence from AEx. Now, a collection agency is calling me 3-4 times daily at home, demanding payment, demanding payment agreement plan, etc. that it was “my” card that was used - I can’t remember using the card in years and don’t know why I am responsible.and what should I do? I don’t want them to “sue” me or try to attach my income. I’m in GA. I’m a nervous wreck from these calls - I had 4 today alone!!!
Why don’t you try not spending money you don’t have to begin with. If you do spend money you don’t have why don’t you get more work and reduce your spending to pay off your debt. You are advocating spending a lot of time and energy making sure you get treated fairly when that time and energy would be better spend discharging the debt. Just a thought.
Dave, you should hook up with “go figure”. You two sound perfect for each other…
Rebecca: According to my initial research, GA is not a community property state. I found this site which addresses spousal debt and I think it will start you on the right path:
http://www.divorcedex.com/divorce/Debt-Division-1079.shtml
Also, the statute of limitation in GA for credit card debt is 6 years. If more than 6 years has passed from the 1st late (and last) payment made on that account, then you are in the clear as far as courts are concerned. If you are past the SOL, you have quite an opportunity to pay the scumbags back by following protocol and logging all incoming call and mailing activity. You’ll have to do a little homework on how to build the right case, but it could payoff for you in terms of $1,000 per Fair Debt Collection Practices Act / Fair Credit Reporting Act violation.
You see, 99% of these debt collecting dirtbags don’t necessarily do their homework either. They go after anyone and everyone (even when it’s clearly illegal) and try to get every penny they possibly can. If you do your homework, you can stop them flat and even make them pay in return…remember, they purchased your debt along with thousands of other accounts for pennies on the dollar and now they just make calls, send letters, and tell lies trying to make a profit. If someone even begins to fight back, they typically throw your file off the desk and move on. Think about it, if they bought your $5,000 debt for $50, they’re not about to invest $2,000+ to go to court with only a “possibility” of getting any of their money back.
Start at debtorboards.com and read up on every post. Don’t lose your composure when they call and don’t fall for their scare tactics and lies. If they’re not filing a suit, there is absolutely nothing you need to worry about. If they are filing suit, they legally have to “serve” you notice so you should know about it. There are plenty of cases where these scumbags will try to “sewer serve” (meaning that they don’t send you the notice as legally required), but again, if this happens there are ways to make them pay for it. It is always a good idea to check your local civil/small claims courthouse to ensure a case hasn’t been filed against you. Many courts now have this information online where you can simply type in your name and see if there are any cases…good luck!
This is an old post but i am glad i stumbled against it as this definitely helped me with my current situtation where in my bank account was frozen and funds removed.
By the way would it be too much to ask a link back from you to my blog. I am from NY…YOu?
I am fighting with a collection agency (PMR) because they refuse to give me any kind of documentation of the debt they say I owe. I don’t know the company they are speaking of and I just asked for something in writing giving me some details as what debt this is. Twice I have called and both times they’ve refused to send me anything - they say their telling me is all that’s required. They say I owe it, therefore I pay it. They yelled and threatened to sue me. I told them go ahead! I can blow this off for the bull it is, but they’ve called a friend of mine saying that I must contact them in regards to a court case of bank fraud. I am a law-abiding citizen, and this is the part of this whole fiasco that infuriates me. My friends shouldn’t have to be subjected to calls like this and it is embarrassing. Now PMR will not give me an address so I can pursue this formally. Anyone know anything about them? I’m in California - how do I find out if there is some kind of class action suit against them. I don’t care about the money, but they do, and this may be the only way to make them stop this kind of abuse. Obviously the Federal laws don’t.
“go figure!” = clearly a debt collector or the wife of a debt collector.
Hello, you got a lot of interesting information on dealing with collection agencies. Have you really shown that this really works?
First off John, I’m speaking from personal experience along with thousands of others on hundreds of sites like this…
Second, the questions you should be asking are these:
If you go to any civil courthouse roster in your local area at 8am, will a majority of the cases posted be from 5 separate junk debt attorneys who each submitted thousands of suits as plaintiffs for debt collection purposes with little to no evidence and/or intention of ever actually showing up to the trial?
Do the Debt Collection scumbag attorneys inflate and multiply the amounts owed by adding thousands of dollars in attorneys fees and interest making an original $400 debt a collection amount of $3,000+ in as little as 2 years?
Are there attorneys who do nothing but run debt collection “factories” where they have a call center phone operator staff that calls on accounts that they purchase for pennies on the dollar trying to “dial for dollars” saying whatever they possibly can to get information so they can drain the victims bank account or take payroll deductions once they have their default judgement in court against the victim?
Is your question about me “showing that this really works” a pathetic attempt to disguise yourself as a possible victim from scumbag debt collectors when you’re ACTUALLY a scumbag debt collector yourself who would like to raise skepticism against the fact that victims can fight back and win with the ultimate hope of discouraging other potential victims so you can make an extra buck this month to pay your rent?